<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Do Premiums Affect Wages?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://theincidentaleconomist.com/premiums-wages/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/premiums-wages/</link>
	<description>Contemplating health care with a focus on research, an eye on reform.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:05:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Austin Frakt</title>
		<link>http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/premiums-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-1506</link>
		<dc:creator>Austin Frakt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 14:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theincidentaleconomist.com/?p=3621#comment-1506</guid>
		<description>I hope my new post on this is clearer on the issues and my assessment of them: http://theincidentaleconomist.com/premiums-and-wages/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope my new post on this is clearer on the issues and my assessment of them: <a href="http://theincidentaleconomist.com/premiums-and-wages/" rel="nofollow">http://theincidentaleconomist.com/premiums-and-wages/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Austin Frakt</title>
		<link>http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/premiums-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-1505</link>
		<dc:creator>Austin Frakt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 13:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theincidentaleconomist.com/?p=3621#comment-1505</guid>
		<description>@Larry Mishel - I agree with you up to but not including the claim that I&#039;ve directly contradicted what you say or said that you&#039;re wrong. That&#039;s why I pointed to Kevin Drum in my last reply, who made the distinction between the issue you address and my point quite clear. I am willing to accept that I wasn&#039;t as accurate and careful with all my words as I might have been or to the extent you would have liked me to have been. It was not my aim to confuse. I will insert a note in the post itself pointing to our exchange in the comments and to Drum&#039;s post (can we agree that he parsed the issues well?).  

As for whose claim is more credible, based on what I know now I am inclined to believe that what you suggest is true. It doesn&#039;t strike me as credible that premium changes are responsible for the degree of wage changes in the 1990s and 2000s. Yet I also believe there is likely a one-to-one premium-wage connection, which is really what&#039;s relevant in the current policy debate. That doesn&#039;t excuse individuals from exaggerating the role of premium changes. To the extent you&#039;re correcting the record on that, I applaud it. But it is important also to make it clear that premiums do affect wages. That&#039;s all I was trying to do, though perhaps with an unwarranted degree of &quot;flair.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Larry Mishel &#8211; I agree with you up to but not including the claim that I&#8217;ve directly contradicted what you say or said that you&#8217;re wrong. That&#8217;s why I pointed to Kevin Drum in my last reply, who made the distinction between the issue you address and my point quite clear. I am willing to accept that I wasn&#8217;t as accurate and careful with all my words as I might have been or to the extent you would have liked me to have been. It was not my aim to confuse. I will insert a note in the post itself pointing to our exchange in the comments and to Drum&#8217;s post (can we agree that he parsed the issues well?).  </p>
<p>As for whose claim is more credible, based on what I know now I am inclined to believe that what you suggest is true. It doesn&#8217;t strike me as credible that premium changes are responsible for the degree of wage changes in the 1990s and 2000s. Yet I also believe there is likely a one-to-one premium-wage connection, which is really what&#8217;s relevant in the current policy debate. That doesn&#8217;t excuse individuals from exaggerating the role of premium changes. To the extent you&#8217;re correcting the record on that, I applaud it. But it is important also to make it clear that premiums do affect wages. That&#8217;s all I was trying to do, though perhaps with an unwarranted degree of &#8220;flair.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Larry Mishel</title>
		<link>http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/premiums-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-1504</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Mishel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 03:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theincidentaleconomist.com/?p=3621#comment-1504</guid>
		<description>Where we disagree is that you cite my paper where I say: “The recent claims that trends in employer health care expenditures explain the beneficial wage growth of the late 1990s and the disappointing wage growth since 2000 does not hold up to any careful scrutiny.” Then you suggest I’m wrong by citing evidence that there’s a trade-off between health care costs and wages.  Yet, the evidence of a trade-off hardly proves that the tremendous acceleration of wages in the mid-90s had anything to do with health care costs  or that moderating health costs caused the wage acceleration. I presented evidence to the contrary which you do not try to address. And, the common interpretation is that productivity acceleration led to the wage acceleration.

So, what do you think of Gruber’s claim that health cost trends explain the faster wage growth in the late 1990s and the slower wage growth in the 2000s? I think it is simply untrue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where we disagree is that you cite my paper where I say: “The recent claims that trends in employer health care expenditures explain the beneficial wage growth of the late 1990s and the disappointing wage growth since 2000 does not hold up to any careful scrutiny.” Then you suggest I’m wrong by citing evidence that there’s a trade-off between health care costs and wages.  Yet, the evidence of a trade-off hardly proves that the tremendous acceleration of wages in the mid-90s had anything to do with health care costs  or that moderating health costs caused the wage acceleration. I presented evidence to the contrary which you do not try to address. And, the common interpretation is that productivity acceleration led to the wage acceleration.</p>
<p>So, what do you think of Gruber’s claim that health cost trends explain the faster wage growth in the late 1990s and the slower wage growth in the 2000s? I think it is simply untrue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Austin Frakt</title>
		<link>http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/premiums-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-1503</link>
		<dc:creator>Austin Frakt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theincidentaleconomist.com/?p=3621#comment-1503</guid>
		<description>@Larry Mishel - I wasn&#039;t questioning your work or methods. I was merely pointing out that there is a vast body of work that shows a close tie between premium increases and wage decreases, one you didn&#039;t cite. One reason it may not have seemed important to reference that literature is that you are addressing a slightly different though related issue, as you point out. Nevertheless, there is a danger that individuals reading your work who are not aware of that literature would conflate the two issues. I think Kevin Drum parsed them well in his post: http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/01/healthcare-and-wages

In closing, I emphasize that isn&#039;t evident that we actually disagree about anything. I wasn&#039;t refuting your work and you&#039;re not claiming that of the economists I cited is suspect. I see no reason for strong words of suspicion about who might have read what. But let me ask, is there something in my post you disagree with?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Larry Mishel &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t questioning your work or methods. I was merely pointing out that there is a vast body of work that shows a close tie between premium increases and wage decreases, one you didn&#8217;t cite. One reason it may not have seemed important to reference that literature is that you are addressing a slightly different though related issue, as you point out. Nevertheless, there is a danger that individuals reading your work who are not aware of that literature would conflate the two issues. I think Kevin Drum parsed them well in his post: <a href="http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/01/healthcare-and-wages" rel="nofollow">http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/01/healthcare-and-wages</a></p>
<p>In closing, I emphasize that isn&#8217;t evident that we actually disagree about anything. I wasn&#8217;t refuting your work and you&#8217;re not claiming that of the economists I cited is suspect. I see no reason for strong words of suspicion about who might have read what. But let me ask, is there something in my post you disagree with?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Larry Mishel</title>
		<link>http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/premiums-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-1502</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Mishel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 21:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theincidentaleconomist.com/?p=3621#comment-1502</guid>
		<description>Glad you&#039;re interested in my research. I wish you had read it.

First, your critique is of a straw man, emphasizing that there is a trade-off between heath care costs and wages. My paper does not address whether there is a trade-off between health care costs and wages and explicitly says so:
 “One claim for the Senate excise tax has recently surfaced: that health care cost increases have been a major driving force in constraining wage growth and that wages will grow more strongly by curtailing employer health costs via the excise tax. This claim boldly asserts that health care costs are large enough (and the tradeoff with wages is large enough) to drive major changes in overall wages. This is a much stronger claim than saying that there is some tradeoff between higher health costs and wages in the total compensation package.” (underlining added).

I present evidence directly drawn from my book, The State of Working America (published by Cornell Press). Simply, the acceleration of wages in the 1990s reflects the acceleration of overall compensation and not any shift in the composition of compensation between health care and wages. I note that health care is just 7% of total compensation and can’t drive overall wage trends. And, I point to the fact that the wages of low and middle-wage workers accelerated the most and they’re the ones with the least health care coverage. The same applies to the deceleration in the 2000s.

Too bad you didn’t read the actual paper and respond to my evidence.

I think saying the work does not appear in peer-reviewed research is a bit silly, too, since the claims I’m responding to were  not made in journals but in recent journalistic blogs and an op-ed. The evidence I present did appear in an academic press book.
Larry Mishel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you&#8217;re interested in my research. I wish you had read it.</p>
<p>First, your critique is of a straw man, emphasizing that there is a trade-off between heath care costs and wages. My paper does not address whether there is a trade-off between health care costs and wages and explicitly says so:<br />
 “One claim for the Senate excise tax has recently surfaced: that health care cost increases have been a major driving force in constraining wage growth and that wages will grow more strongly by curtailing employer health costs via the excise tax. This claim boldly asserts that health care costs are large enough (and the tradeoff with wages is large enough) to drive major changes in overall wages. This is a much stronger claim than saying that there is some tradeoff between higher health costs and wages in the total compensation package.” (underlining added).</p>
<p>I present evidence directly drawn from my book, The State of Working America (published by Cornell Press). Simply, the acceleration of wages in the 1990s reflects the acceleration of overall compensation and not any shift in the composition of compensation between health care and wages. I note that health care is just 7% of total compensation and can’t drive overall wage trends. And, I point to the fact that the wages of low and middle-wage workers accelerated the most and they’re the ones with the least health care coverage. The same applies to the deceleration in the 2000s.</p>
<p>Too bad you didn’t read the actual paper and respond to my evidence.</p>
<p>I think saying the work does not appear in peer-reviewed research is a bit silly, too, since the claims I’m responding to were  not made in journals but in recent journalistic blogs and an op-ed. The evidence I present did appear in an academic press book.<br />
Larry Mishel</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mitchell Freedman</title>
		<link>http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/premiums-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-1494</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitchell Freedman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theincidentaleconomist.com/?p=3621#comment-1494</guid>
		<description>Arthur&#039;s point may be reenforced by the fact that the US lacks private sector unions or any way to really force employers to share their wealth gains.  Even when employers made lots more money at various points in the past 30 years, there was little shared.  That is why Mischel is so skeptical, too.

The sad truth is my wife&#039;s school district PPO comes brushing up against the limit already set forth in the proposed legislation.  That Obama embraces this tax on a decidedly middle class person but not the public option speaks volumes about the failure of Obama and the Congressional Dems to stand up to the Republicans, Scorpion Democrats (unfortunately called Blue Dogs) and the insurance industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arthur&#8217;s point may be reenforced by the fact that the US lacks private sector unions or any way to really force employers to share their wealth gains.  Even when employers made lots more money at various points in the past 30 years, there was little shared.  That is why Mischel is so skeptical, too.</p>
<p>The sad truth is my wife&#8217;s school district PPO comes brushing up against the limit already set forth in the proposed legislation.  That Obama embraces this tax on a decidedly middle class person but not the public option speaks volumes about the failure of Obama and the Congressional Dems to stand up to the Republicans, Scorpion Democrats (unfortunately called Blue Dogs) and the insurance industry.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
